Fatrank Podcast

James Dooley: How much is a Google Knowledge Panel from DefineYourEntity.com? I've had quite a lot of people reaching out to me and they've realised that we've launched a brand called Define Your Entity, and they've asked me, "What are the costs involved in us building then a brand new Google Knowledge Panel?" Now, in answer to that question, we are about £15,000 from start to finish in building out a Google Knowledge Panel. However, this does completely depend on where you are already in your cycle. If you already have a KGM ID or you might have multiple KGM IDs, but you don't yet have the Google Knowledge Panel being seen, it could be quite a lot cheaper. There is a 125-point checklist and where you are along that cycle determines the costs and the prices of your Google Knowledge Panel creation, or could be fixing or merging your Google Knowledge Panel. But, as we start going talking about the costs and the prices, Kasra, I want to start with yourself, right? Because people can go and type in best Google Knowledge Panel service provider or cheapest Google Knowledge Panel provider, and there's certain places on places like Fiverr, Legiit and other freelancer websites where people can say, "I can build your Knowledge Panel for £50." What, what do people need to understand if they're cheaping out on their personal brand and their Google Knowledge Panel? What things can go wrong? Can you explain if people trying to do things on the cheap, some things and how it can have a detrimental effect on their Google Knowledge Panel long-term?

Kasra Dash: First of all, I wish it was $50 and it would get me a Knowledge Panel because I would have paid it multiple years ago. Um, so, when, when it comes to Knowledge Panels, based off of our experience, if you do certain things before it's marinated enough, if, if you will, you can... You do run the risk of actually getting your name blacklisted on certain websites, and that basically means, like, you're, you're never going to get a Knowledge Panel. So, it's one of the things that you don't want to cheap out on. Like, cheap out on everything else, like a web developer, whatever, but do not cheap out on your personal brand. Because it's the one thing that stays with you. Even if, like, let's say you're, you're an employee watching this, right? And you want to job swap from job to job. If, if a new employer researches your name and they see that, that's, like, another trust factor. Or maybe you're, you're an influencer watching this and you want to try and do it the cheap way. You do run the risk of potentially getting blacklisted and potentially new followers of you... If you just end up never having a Knowledge Panel again, you've, you've done a massive detrimental impact to your actual personal brand. So, I personally wouldn't cheap out. It's one of the things that I would pay more for, for a premium service, knowing that I'm going to get the result, than being able to cheap out, I don't know, a couple thousand dollars, for example, or a couple thousand pound.

James Dooley: Yeah, for sure. When people are here, they're looking for the costs of a Knowledge Panel. Paul, I want to go the other side. So, with them talking about people being frugal, people cheaping out and being blacklisted off places like Wikipedia and Wikidata, and trying to edit your own Wikidata page, and how you do all the, the, the good, the bad and the ugly of what happens when you start to do that. I want to now talk about the premium services that are out there. So, this... We've had one or two horror stories where we've had certain people within some private testing groups that have said, "I'm not going to cheap out. I've got big budget." And they spent £80,000. That's pounds, that's not dollars. Over $100,000 on their personal brand. And when we looked at it, and we've looked at the Entity Confidence Score, and we've looked at the 125-point checklist, they've not even covered half of the checklist off, right? Yes, they have a KGM ID, but when they're searching the name, the Knowledge Panel doesn't show up. And they've gone and sold it in, and they've charged £80,000 for a KGM ID, and they're not even popping the Google... The Google Knowledge Panel. Can you explain, right, obviously we've gone and we've created the brand called Define Your Entity. The official website is DefineYourEntity.com. Can you explain, right, why Define Your Entity at £15,000 is not only cheap in comparison to these premium people selling it at £80,000, but also they were saying it takes 18 months, and the time frame that we're looking at is from, like, four to six months for us to be able to pop the Knowledge Panel? Why is £15,000 from Define Your Entity so much better than these premium services that are charging £80,000?

Paul David Truscott: When you start comparing these prices, not only the time frame, and not only the comparison and the pricing being cheaper, but expand a little bit about it's not just about a KGM ID, it's not just about getting that Entity Passport, but it's about strengthening that Entity Confidence Score, that when someone searches your name, you are the one that shows up. There might be multiple Paul Truscotts, but you're the Paul David Truscott that shows up because you've built that Entity Confidence Score up. Okay, so I'll start with how people sometimes get tricked into thinking that they've got the result they paid for. And that is that the, the, the, uh, company that's done the work for them will give them a search string that includes the, the actual ID code for that person, okay? This is the machine code. When you put that in, your Knowledge Panel will pop up, right? But the reason for that is because you've got complete and utter disambiguation because you've fed Google the actual code for the person you're talking about, okay? So, you've given Google no work to do. So, in that situation, very, very often the Knowledge Panel will show, okay? So, you're like, "Oh, great. I've got a Knowledge Panel." Now search your name without the code. Or if it's a business, search your brand without the code. And you'll usually see a very, very different result and a disappointing result. And this is because regardless of what you've paid, the company that are working on your behalf haven't done what they need to do in order to get the result that you've paid for, okay? So, I think it's easy for people to think that even £15,000 is a lot of money, but if they consider... If they looked at the checklist and they saw what work was involved, first of all, they'd probably have a different opinion. But, that checklist also has been formed over a com... I don't even want to guesstimate how many years of combined experience between the four of us and how many... How much money and time we've spent between ourselves figuring this out, okay? This is not something that you do in a weekend, uh, by just sitting at your computer. You know, this takes a lot of trial and error, a lot of failure. Well, we've all of us made... Done... We failed many, many, many times with a lot of things that we've tried. Uh, and cutting the corners is one of those things. I mean, I'm going to hold my hand up and say that I've tried cutting corners many, many times to, to save time and money. Um, it always backfires, right? It always backfires. But, even if you spend the money, there's no guarantee that the people who are doing the work for you aren't cutting those same corners, right? Uh, and unfortunately, we've seen this because we're able to, with our knowledge and the tools we have available to us, we're, we're able to see a little bit behind the curtain in a way that the, the ordinary person out there, not to, to denigrate them, at the end of the day, this is not their field of expertise, but they're not able to see these things. And if they could see them, they'd be horrified about, you know, the money that they've spent and what they've got for it, frankly. So, it's about... I, I, I'd pull it down to this. Getting your Knowledge Panel right is about trust and popularity, ultimately. Google has to trust what they're seeing and that... And you have to be popular enough to, to want to show the panel. So, I would say let's, let's use a little bit of that ourselves and look at the trust element and say, do we trust who we're actually instructing to do this work? Okay, so that's, that's an important thing. And if you're going to, especially cheap gigs on Fiverr, uh, if you Google the person's name, uh, you can look at their reviews on, on, on Fiverr or Legiit. That's, you know, I mean, take that with a pinch of salt because they put those in front of you. They're not going to put bad reviews in front of you. Um, but, if you actually Google that person's name, what comes up? Is there anything about them? Probably not. So, I'd want to know that the person that you are actually instructing to do the work has some pedigree, has some experience in the field, and, and knows what they're doing. Otherwise, you can be parting, sometimes, with either a small amount of money or a lot of money and not getting the result. And what Kasra touched on is so, so important because not only are you not getting the result, you might be doing irreversible detrimental harm to your brand. And that's some... That's a hole that is very, very difficult to dig yourself out of at any price. So, you know, it's a cautionary tale. We've all kind of been there, um, and got the scars to, to show for it. So, yeah.

James Dooley: So, I... I've got... I've got £15,000 expensive. I've got a follow-on question here, right? So, I'm going to explain my thought process behind, um, the investment of a Google Knowledge Panel because we're talking here about the costs and the prices, yeah, right? And a lot of time people look at the cost and the prices and they see it as an expense to the business or an expense to them. Well, I always flip it the other way around and say, "Okay, what return on investment am I going to get?" Right? What return on investment am I going to get from a Google Knowledge Panel for James Dooley? What return on investment am I going to get from a Google Knowledge Panel for one of my brands like FatRank or PromoSEO? Am I going to get a return on investment of this? Because that, that then... The fundamentals of that changes it from an expense to an investment, right? And the interesting part is I sit on a lot of investment boards. And now does a... Does a Google Knowledge Panel, does that sit on a performance-based marketing strategy? It could do. Do you know why? Because actually when you have a Google Knowledge Panel and you're a known entity and they've got the confidence and clarity in understanding who you are and what you do and why you're brilliant, you get something that's called query augmentation. So, it starts augmenting those queries and you start ranking your websites or businesses that you're connected to for more keywords. So, does it fit under performance-based? Yes, I think it does. So, from an investment, if someone came along and said, "Should I get a Google Knowledge Panel for performance-based marketing?" I would say yes. Does it fall under brand building? A completely different budget, completely different budget of what's being spent within the investment pot. Is a Google Knowledge Panel part of brand building? Absolutely, I think it is. I think it's the core fundamental. It's the first thing that you see. It's your business card online. Someone searches your name, before they even click on your website, they're seeing the branded SERP, they're seeing the Knowledge Panel. So, it's certainly part of your brand building. So, yes, performance-based. Yes, it falls under brand building. And then the third one, reputation. Online reputation management. Is building this Google Knowledge Panel part of your reputation management? Yes, of course. Of course it is. Defining the entity, who you are, what you do, and why you are brilliant. So, should some of that budget come out of performance? Yes. Should some of it come out of brand building? Yes. Should some of that come out of online reputation management budget? Yes. It, in my opinion, it's an investment which ticks all of them boxes. And when you're looking at the costs and the prices, if someone came along and said that £15,000 from Define Your Entity is expensive, we don't want to work with them kind of people. We want to work with the kind of people that have had their fingers burnt spending £80,000, and they're not even triggering the, the Google Knowledge Panel. They've got a KGM ID, but they've not got the Google Knowledge Panel. We can come along with our Entity Confidence Score and improve that Entity Confidence Score and take their branding onto the next level. Kasra, I want you to expand on that a little bit. What, what bracket would you put it in? Have I missed another bucket with regards to the costs and the prices? Do you see it as an expense, or do you see it as being an investment you need to look at long-term in getting a Google Knowledge Panel?

Kasra Dash: I think if you think that £15,000 is too expensive, you should just click off this video and stop watching it. Um, like, the... That's the... That's the honest answer. It might be harsh, but if you think that it's too much, go and earn more money, and then come back in 12 months' time. Um, because me personally, I'm getting brand deals from my YouTube channel, from my conference, etc., that are well above £15,000, and it's because of the trust element of the actual Knowledge Panel. So, that, that's... That's personally how I see it. It's a bit harsh, but it's, it's the truth. You're probably not ready for, for getting a Knowledge Panel if you see it as an expense and not an actual direct ROI.

James Dooley: What's your thoughts on it, Paul? So, we're looking at the costs and the prices of a Knowledge Panel. We're seeing that some people are charging £80,000. We're seeing some people are trying to do it on the cheap, and they go, "I, I can create you one for a few hundred bucks or whatever." Like, and we're in the middle. We're at £15,000, but we do more than just the creation of the KGM ID. We're building that Entity Confidence Score to take their business onto the next level, their personal brand onto the next level. When you're looking at the costs and the prices of a Google Knowledge Panel, is that expensive? Is it an investment? And is there any other benefits of a Google Knowledge Panel that I've missed off apart from the brand building, the reputation management, and what other things that come of it? Kasra was there and mentioned about brand deals, sponsorship deals, and stuff like that. What's your thoughts on the cost and prices of a Google Knowledge Panel?

Paul David Truscott: Okay, so I'd put this bluntly and simply, and that is that people who, uh, are, are looking... Are in the market for a Knowledge Panel are essentially doing it for two reasons. Then there's some middle ground too. But it's either vanity, okay, you just want one, or you recognise that you really need one. If you want one and you don't need one, then by all means try the cheap tactic. If it back... Well, when it backfires, it doesn't really matter, right? But if you're a brand with a real presence and you've got real clients or customers to satisfy, you don't want to be playing that game. You need to make sure that you get it right. And in, and in that camp, you need this. You really do. For all the reasons that you and Kasra have highlighted, it's an absolute investment. And I'd, I'd put it really simply. If you look at any big brand, right? When they're doing advertising, they will typically, if they can afford it, hire celebrities, right? Now there's a reason they do that. They don't do it because they're expensive. They do it because they know it's going to attract people to the brand, right? When you get a Knowledge Panel, it kind of works the same way. It makes you into someone. If the founders of a business have a Knowledge Panel, if the brand itself has a Knowledge Panel... I'll give you an example. McDonald's, their Big Mac has a Knowledge Panel. It has its own Knowledge Panel, right? It's popular enough that it exists outside of the, the actual brand of the business itself. So, it's famous, right? The Big Mac is... It's just a burger and it's more famous than most people, which is quite sad really in a way. Um, but yeah, that, that celebrity status that's attached because it is kind of a mini celebrity status that's attached to, um, having a Knowledge Panel, it drives all of those things that you were talking about and, and the things that Kasra was talking about. And if you don't get your £15,000 back very, very quickly once your Knowledge Panel is established, you're doing something wrong. You're doing something fundamentally wrong somewhere else in your business because it absolutely is going to make a difference. We've seen it every single time that the Knowledge Panel has popped. You guys have seen it for yourselves with your own personal brands, the difference it makes in the inquiries that you get and the quality of the inquiries too. They're much... Far fewer tyre kickers because they understand that you're a serious brand who they can work with and get the results with.

James Dooley: Yeah, for sure. And all of us listening to this with regards to the costing or the pricing of a Google Knowledge Panel, if you were looking to get one and you think £15,000 is a great offer, which I personally do. I've, I've spent way more than that. And I have wasted years on building it up as well. So, if you are interested, make sure you head on over to DefineYourEntity.com. Fill in all your details. Let's see where you're up to in the 125-point checklist. If you've already got an existing Knowledge Panel, but it doesn't always seem to pop, or you're interested in the 125-point checklist, you might not be looking to get an actual... Create a new Google Knowledge Panel. You might be looking to improve upon it, and you might want to know the costings and the pricing involved in improving and strengthening an existing Google Knowledge Panel. Head on over to DefineYourEntity.com. Kasra, Paul, it's been an absolute pleasure, and we hope you like the prices and costs of a Google Knowledge Panel.