Fatrank Podcast

James Dooley: SEO for podcasts. Today I am joined with Dennis Yu and I want to dig deep into which search engine optimisation strategies should be used if you are looking to scale a podcast that you might have launched. I am going to jump straight in because I have launched eight different podcasts this year, Dennis Yu. For me, I am doing videos like this that might go onto one of the podcasts, and it goes up on YouTube and then gets syndicated out to Apple, Amazon and Spotify. I upload it onto IMDb as well, so they are on really powerful, trusted websites. But do you think that every podcast series should have an entity home or a central hub that can then show all the episodes that you have? That is my first question. Should you have a website per podcast, in your opinion?

Dennis Yu: If it is a first class entity, then it should. Like James Dooley, you need to have a website for that, right? A company needs to have a website. A podcast should probably have a website. But it depends. If you are a serious podcaster, you have got a million subscribers and all that, then yes, probably. But for most people, maybe they just have the podcast linked from their homepage. It is like the question of when you have three businesses, are they three websites or are they related? Is one a real business and the other two hobbies? It is the same question here for your podcast.

James Dooley: Yes. So I will give you one of the examples. I have got a podcast called the Online Reputation Management Podcast. We talk about everything related to having a good positive brand for your personal brand and for your business brand. If you have got anything there that you do not want to have there, you try to suppress it with positive content and kind of get rid of any negative stigma that is online. This podcast now has got its own knowledge graph machine ID. So it has got its own KGM ID as a podcast. I then started to realise that each episode can actually get its own KGM ID, but the Online Reputation Management Podcast does not have an entity home. Now, I have got jamesdooley.com, I have got Fat Rank and I have got my businesses. But I am thinking that people who might want to subscribe might want to initially go to the main central hub and then see that they can subscribe on Spotify and Amazon, but then also have each episode, so episode number one, the title, having a page for that and a link to the description and a link to the video. The reason I have not done it is because it is hard work. But now I am speaking to people like yourself who run multiple AI agents. If people do not really use AI agents and have them working simultaneously, check out the link in the description. But should I be grabbing all old episodes, getting AI to upload them, get the transcript of what it is about, and link through to all the others, wrap it in the schema? Should I be doing that or can AI do that for me? Let me show you something. I am going to share my screen. This is something that I have not seen anyone else talk about.

Dennis Yu: Obviously we all know what the knowledge graph is and how these entities are connected. Let us see. Am I sharing my screen?

James Dooley: No screen. Hang on. Entire screen.

Dennis Yu: Okay. So my buddy David Meerman Scott has, where is that? I have got to go to Chrome. I have got so many things open. It is hard to find. But my buddy David Meerman Scott has himself on Groipedia, and then each of his books has its own Groipedia entry, and then of course you have podcasts, and then each of the episodes associated with that. The beauty is that when these are all linked together, like this is a DR70 site, and when all of these are linked together, and this is obviously all built by Claude, Claude is building these web pages. Claude is making sure that if we look at David and Groipedia, that KGM ID, of course he has got a full knowledge panel. All of these tie together. Look at how many citations we have just for him. Every object that is a first class object should have lots of rich citations that link. So if you are talking about KGM IDs and reputation management, then there is our buddy who wears his red shirt and who talks about that, and we could link to him. There is so much stuff that is contextual that we can tie together. So when you have a website that is a first class object, that also allows you to tie to the other objects that are associated with that. So the Facebook and the LinkedIn and the Twitter and the YouTube and all those objects all tie together.

James Dooley: That is exactly it. I have watched a lot of your videos and I will be honest with you, I absolutely love the information that you put out there. On what you are talking about there with regards to Groipedia, you are talking about the SEO tree where everything is all connected together. This is where I am thinking that, potentially, for people who are looking to do SEO for their podcast, or they are looking to launch a new podcast, should they be creating their own almost Groipedia page per episode, which then can link to all the other profiles together in the schema?

Dennis Yu: The beauty is it is a no-brainer. It is so easy to do with these AI agents. Here, I have got this access checklist. This used to be something that we did with Filipinos manually, but you are going to have all these things like you would do for a client. You are going to treat your podcast like a client because your podcast should have a Facebook and a Reddit and a YouTube and all these other ones. Then as content comes out, it cascades and gets repurposed to all these different entities. You could use Make or n8n or VAs or whatever, but we use Cloudbot and Claude Code to do all these different things. Then for you as a person, you have a list of all the entities that are associated with that as well. So why would you not?

James Dooley: Yes. I think it is more than not knowing. You are saying why would you not, and I get it 100 per cent. It is just getting your head around getting the AI agents of Claude Code building the site. Every time one gets published, it creates the page, embeds the video, then shares it on the socials. At times, if AI agents are moving that fast, it can become daunting. So this is why I wanted, specifically for people launching a podcast, to know what SEO should they be doing. They should be leveraging Claude Code, like you are saying, to have the entity home, to build that website, to syndicate it on socials. I am not doing it, even though I have got a team and I feel like we are pretty advanced with regards to AI. I feel like you guys are just on another level of optimisation, which is exactly why I wanted to get you on. What can and cannot be done for podcasting?

Dennis Yu: Yes. The cool thing is that a lot of people will start with Spotify and YouTube and maybe repurpose that to a blog post and then think that is already a lot of effort. They are so busy trying to book these episodes and the coordination, and they do not have time to do this other stuff, or their team is busy trying to edit videos. I have heard all the excuses. So what you do is you just have a team of these agents. You can see, for me, this one here shows I have got 609 credits on Podchaser. I have claimed my podcast. I have claimed my profile. Any podcast I have been on, I am either the host or the guest. Here is this one with you. This lends reputation and credibility and citations to you and to me. This is so easy to do. These episodes coming in and claiming them and all that, do you think I manually came in and did all that? Claude did it. Then how about going into Listen Notes and going into all the other platforms? Do you think I had time to do any of that, or any of our VAs had time to do any of that?

James Dooley: Yes. I do not feel like I am doing it. I feel like I am a newbie in podcasting, even though I have launched eight brands and gone wide across a lot of different topics that I wanted to talk about. We are talking about all these different things. But from an SEO perspective, the Podchaser side of all the other episodes that I am on, collecting that together, that SEO tree and connecting all the entities together and the nodes and the edges that need to be connected is huge. This is why I wanted to get you on, because I am not doing it and I am sure there are thousands of people who are going to watch this that are launching a podcast or have a podcast and are going to say, we are not doing that either. Making sure we are connecting everything together is obviously key. So are you all in on Claude, on multi-agent systems, to be able to connect this together? Is that the best platform to use?

Dennis Yu: I have used all of them and I always have FOMO whenever someone says, have you tried this? Then I will try it. But I think for the next year it is pretty safe to be on Claude because I think they are willing to lose money. They raised a whole bunch of money. I think within three years we will all move to Grok. I think in the next year and a half we will probably move to Gemini, all of us, because of various reasons, data centres and power. It is a physical limitation, not the models. A lot of people do not know it is actually electricity and a physical limitation, and then the chips and then the models. Claude has the best model. I think they have grown so fast in the last six months, they are about to eclipse OpenAI's revenue by the end of this year. They have gone like this and ChatGPT is growing like this too, but Claude has grown like this for business. That is why. So I think they are going to run into the problem that OpenAI had in the last year, which is they grew so big that their servers cannot handle it because there are not enough power plants built and they do not have enough chips, even if they could get enough electricity to their data centres. So I think Google is the mid-term winner, and I think in three years from now we are all going to be on Grok. You can clip what I said here, but right now it is Claude for at least a year.

James Dooley: So Claude for a year, then you are thinking Gemini, and then you are thinking Grok?

Dennis Yu: Yes. But everything you are building here, if you build it the way we are talking about, is easy to move because we have it modular. You can migrate to whatever system that you want. So either way, it is not like saying I am going to wait until the next iPhone to upgrade. No. Just build your stuff now because you can move your knowledge and your projects and your clients. It is very easy to export if you have your SOPs and your projects organised and your skills organised in such a way that you are not locked into Claude or locked into ChatGPT. All these guys are trying to lock you in.

James Dooley: Yes. Last question with regards to podcasting. I am all over the knowledge graph. I love the knowledge panels and building them out. What I liked, like last year I wrote eight books and I got eight different KGM IDs, one for each book. But what I loved more about the podcasting is that each series can get its own KGM ID, but each podcast episode can have its own KGM ID. However, for me, it is hit and miss whether I get it or I do not get it with regards to a KGM ID for an episode. What is the best way for each podcast episode to get a KGM ID? Why is it that some do and some do not? Or is it just to do with the corroboration? Does there need to be more corroboration that then gets that episode to have its own KGM ID?

Dennis Yu: I think you have nailed it. I think just having a stronger footprint with collaboration with other podcasts that you have. If they are all tied to you, then certainly we want to link both ways with you as the primary object, which has, what, a 350 confidence score. Not like that is an accurate number that Google provides, but I think those linkages matter because Google determines trust from other objects it already trusts. That is the whole point of the knowledge graph and the way you measure trust. So I think doing that is important. Then my little hack, which I have run by friends at Google for podcasts, is that I like to boost them on YouTube for a dollar a day. It costs almost nothing. Google will not say it publicly, but they have told me that those signals, if people stay and watch, matter. So they stay and watch my podcast episodes for eight and a half minutes. I record 40 or 50 minute episodes, and they stay for eight and a half minutes. That is a strong signal. Even when I boost it, they still stay for eight and a half minutes.

James Dooley: Yes.

Dennis Yu: So that is actually helping my SEO because they stay. Now, if I boosted stuff and my podcast was poor, then no amount of boosting is going to overcome that because the engagement is low, right?

James Dooley: Yes, that makes sense. And does each, so let us say on James Dooley's channel, on my YouTube channel, could I syndicate those videos to multiple podcasts? So if I spoke about lead generation, I could do it to a lead generation podcast, but if I spoke about reputation management, I can do it to a reputation management podcast, and then use playlists, and then embed the links that you have on your websites and social profiles? You can embed playlists in the URL so they do not just go to the main channel, and then each playlist can have its own actual podcast set up from there?

Dennis Yu: Yes, exactly. You could do it under separate channels or all under one channel. For example, if I look at the studio on this Dennis Yu channel, I only have 3,000 subscribers. It has only been going for the last few months. But check this out. How many people are going to show you their data? I went from nothing four months ago. Let me just show you. Nothing. And now I am at two million views. Then I can take my latest content. Some of it I use as a staging area as well, so that is why some of these things do not have anything going on. But in any one of these, let us say this one, how do you become an Amazon bestseller? Well, you record a bunch of podcasts and turn each of those chapters into a book. That is what I basically say here. This gets repurposed over here, and these all link back to this episode as well as to the URL for that podcast. Then from here, because I am an admin, I hit promote, where I can boost it to a certain audience.

James Dooley: Yes. Yes. Yes.

Dennis Yu: Even better, I can open up my Claude or ChatGPT and say, I want to boost this particular episode on how do you make an Amazon bestseller, but I want to boost it to people who follow James Dooley, just to demonstrate that we can do this. But I forgot how do I target people who like James Dooley because he has got eight podcasts and different books and he is pretty big on YouTube. But I know there is a way you can target people who follow YouTube channels as well as people who have watched certain episodes, but I do not remember how. Can you log into my Google Ads account and go ahead and set that up, and let us spend 10 dollars a day for the next week targeting all the fans of James Dooley or things related to James Dooley, and let us run it to that particular episode, and obviously log into my Google Ads account and do all that.

James Dooley: That is incredible. I did not know you could do that on the ads as well.

Dennis Yu: Yes. Anything that you can do. This is the thing that blew my mind. Anything that you can do through a screen that you have access to, because this is inside the browser, if I can see it, then it has access too. Then what does it do? I have like a hundred different Google Ads accounts, but I think we have done it enough times that it remembers which one. Sometimes it goes to the wrong one and I get mad at it, but it will verify because we have a QA checklist where it will do stuff and I say, did you make sure to QA your stuff?

James Dooley: Right.

Dennis Yu: Yes. Just like you tell a human. The first couple of times it messes it up, but after it has done it a few times then it kind of learns. See, it is about to log into the Google Ads account. It is going to set up targeting against you. Then I will say that is pretty good, but do you not think there is a better episode, or can you clip some of the stuff of me and James Dooley talking and then put that on my channel and give him attribution?

James Dooley: Yes, that is cool.

Dennis Yu: It is a little slow. People say it is so slow as it clicks, but I do not care because I have got 20 other agents working at the same time while this one is working.

James Dooley: Yes. Yes. Yes. That is brilliant. So, anyone who is watching this with regards to launching a podcast, or looking to do search engine optimisation of an existing podcast, today I have been joined with Dennis Yu, who is absolutely brilliant when it comes down to knowledge panels, KGM IDs, and being an all-round digital marketer. So, obviously doing the dollar-a-day strategy, we have got a link in the description for that. I am talking about all different AI agents and what can work best. Dennis Yu, it has been an absolute pleasure again and I appreciate you spending the time. Amazing.