Fatrank Podcast

Alex Cooper: Hey everyone, good evening! It’s a Monday night stream, which is unusual, but it was the only time I could get tonight’s fantastic guest. You’ve probably seen him pop up on a few podcasts recently, even though he’s fairly new to the public scene. He’s been doing SEO for a long time, so we’re going to dive into his story. Let me say hi to the chat… and I see James is already in the comments and may answer questions there too. Let’s bring him on. Here he is — James! Good to see you.

James Dooley: Good to see you too.

Alex Cooper: For anyone who doesn’t know who you are, give us a little background — who you are, what you do.

James Dooley: Sure. About 13 years ago I started out in the construction industry and realised we needed a consistent flow of enquiries. We had a website built, but I didn’t know anything about optimisation, so that pushed me into SEO. At first I had no idea what I was doing — I went down white hat, black hat, anything that might work. Honestly, I was one of the worst SEOs you could find for the first few years. But about nine years ago things started to click, and then of course I got hit with Panda, Penguin — every penalty going. We scaled a lot of sites though, so while some crashed, others doubled. That’s when I realised I needed my own in-house testing team. That was probably the best business decision I ever made.

Alex Cooper: And that gave you real data rather than relying on industry myths, right?

James Dooley: Exactly. A tactic that works in casino won’t necessarily work in finance or local lead gen. People think SEO is one universal algorithm, but it really isn’t.

Alex Cooper: SEO was very different back then…

James Dooley: Completely. If you had your keywords in the title and built a few links, you ranked. People built sites in Flash, didn’t use headings, stuffed meta keywords. It was the wild west.

Alex Cooper: So when did you move from doing SEO for your construction company to doing it for clients and expanding your portfolio?

James Dooley: Funny thing is, I never planned to do SEO for others. I ranked number one for all my keywords, and a mentor told me, “You’re number one but not number two — build another site.” That changed everything. We built multiple sites, went after different intents, and started ranking for everything in our industry. Over time, we realised that if we ranked in shoulder niches — like landscapers or construction services — they’d win more work, and we’d win work from them. Lead gen eventually surpassed the construction company. Today we’re in over 800 niches.

Alex Cooper: Is your lead gen local to Manchester or UK-wide?

James Dooley: UK-wide. We cover all 43,000 towns and cities. We’ve never expanded internationally simply because there’s too much opportunity here.

Alex Cooper: Let’s take some audience questions. Someone asks if building local landing pages is a good idea.

James Dooley: Yes, but only when Google shows different results for those locations. Different SERPs = different page.

Alex Cooper: Thoughts on backlinks?

James Dooley: They work — absolutely. But if your content is poor, they won’t help. SEO is holistic: technical, content, topical authority, traffic, backlinks. All of it.

Alex Cooper: And blog content for service businesses?

James Dooley: Great idea. Write “how to” guides, solve problems, then funnel them into hiring you. People are far more likely to link to these than service pages.

Alex Cooper: What’s your approach to link building?

James Dooley: Build foundation links first — directories, citations, branded anchors to the homepage. Then create content that deserves links: statistics, surveys, data pages. Once they rank, natural links happen. We only target money pages later and carefully.

Alex Cooper: Do no-follow links matter?

James Dooley: More than ever. Even unlinked mentions move the needle now. We’ve tested this extensively.

Alex Cooper: What about ranking without backlinks?

James Dooley: Possible in low-competition niches or informational blogs using ads like Mediavine. Nick Jordan has proved it. But for local rank & rent? Links help massively.

Alex Cooper: If you lost everything and had to start from zero, what would you do?

James Dooley: Build 2–3 local lead gen sites. Write 30–40 pages — yes, AI is fine if prompted well. Get a few companies to take leads on a back-end payment model. Then scale up to high-value niches like finance or legal once you have cash flow.

Alex Cooper: And you approach potential clients early?

James Dooley: Sometimes right away, especially to use their images or qualify demand. Later, when we know who converts best, we refine it to one or two partners and build deeper relationships.

Alex Cooper: Does the client mind you competing with their own site?

James Dooley: Not at all. They see profit. Most have been burned by traditional SEO agencies. With us, they only pay when they make money.

Alex Cooper: And rank-and-rent means one client per site, right?

James Dooley: Usually. Some plural sites list multiple companies, but most are exclusive. If a site costs us £20k to build and earns £2k a month, it pays for itself quickly.

Alex Cooper: And clients prefer fixed monthly fees?

James Dooley: Yes. It lets them budget and lets us invest consistently.

Alex Cooper: Let’s switch gears to Google updates. This year’s have been rough.

James Dooley: Honestly the most bizarre I’ve ever seen. Many high-quality sites were hit unfairly. I suspect a refinement update is coming. But right now the best recovery method is pruning thin or dead-weight content. Run a full content audit. Delete or rewrite pages with zero clicks. Keep content velocity up. Google has hinted repeatedly that thin content affects your entire site now.

Alex Cooper: And for people feeling discouraged?

James Dooley: You need thick skin. Failure is part of SEO — you win or you learn. Growth is not linear. Every day is a school day. Test, adapt, keep going. Nobody became successful staying in their comfort zone.

Alex Cooper: You also talk a lot about mindset — law of attraction?

James Dooley: 100%. “The Secret” by Rhonda Byrne is great. Visualise the outcome, then work backwards. Confidence grows from action.

Alex Cooper: And networking?

James Dooley: Essential. Your network is your net worth. Go to events, even small WordPress meetups. Big names are approachable — and the best insights happen at the bar, not on stage. Conferences are for networking, masterminds are for breakthroughs.

Alex Cooper: Work–life balance — do you have one?

James Dooley: Much better now. I stop work early and spend afternoons with my kids. I believe in work–life integration — letting your family share the journey. My wife even started “SEO Wives.”

Alex Cooper: You’re financially set. Why not retire?

James Dooley: I’d hate it. I know too many people who sold for £50M and became depressed. I love what I do. I’d reject a billion if it meant I couldn’t work again.

Alex Cooper: Final question: if you could follow only one SEO on Twitter, who would it be?

James Dooley: Koray Gübür. His content methodology is on another level.

Alex Cooper: Brilliant choice. Thanks for joining me tonight, James — it’s been incredible.

James Dooley: Thanks for having me.